Afib elimination via calcium and vitamin D control without ablation

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Sam
Mike. have you tried the belly breathing exercise for acid reflux? It cured mine quite quickly. I'll give more details if you're interested.

Yes please Sam I'd be interested in reading about it.
Cheers,
Mike

Do the exercise in the standing position. I like to lean against a wall so I'm relaxed.

Place the flat of your hands so that palms are on your on your ribs and your fingers are on your stomach.

Inhale deeply making sure your ribs are not moving and feel the stomach expand.

Don't think at all about breathing out; just concentrate on pulling your stomach all the way in. This will empty your lungs without you having to think about exhaling.

Repeat smoothly and deliberately 12 times..

Do this 4 times a day.

Hope this is clear & let me know how you get on.

Sam

Thanks Sam.

I'm GERD-free at present but will try this as and when required.

It sounds like it maybe something to do with allowing a sliding hiatus hernia ample opportunity to slide back down beneath the diaphragm if it is indeed a HH that is the problem (as I understand it is for 50% or so of middle-aged folks out there).

Regarding milk...

I have had 5 afib attacks so far over the last 4 years. I kept a journal of each to see what common factors were there. I am 48 (first attack at 44) run about 20 miles a week including martial arts and am pretty fit. I don't drink much anymore, and when I do it is a glass of wine or two.

I'll spare you the long story but the journal showed that the one common factor around all attacks was that all occurred on a weekend when I was home, and the one thing I do while home is I drink a lot of milk. I always have. I'm talking about half a gallon a day or so. I also haven't taken Vit D or K - I don't think ever, and I work indoors. I have no idea if milk is the culprit but the last two times (which was last Sunday and a month ago) I have my journal showing I drank a lot of milk - even for me.

Ghost,

I say that is highly suspicious : well, as you may know from reading by now, I am actually certain there is a direct connection, but absolutely concrete proof (a scientific-grade large study) is not available as yet.

In your position and at your age I would certainly do the following :

1) Forget the VitK for now -- no convincing connection to afib so not your first priority. Plenty of time to worry about that later.

2) Get a VitD test. Depending on your location, you may well have to pay privately for that because of your age. For example, in Australia, you would be very lucky to find a Doc who would refer you for the free test for that at your age. They have a strict set of gov't requirements like : known osteoporosis; advanced age; wearing a burqa; etc. You could try the "no sun exposure" line, but it may be a real struggle. In the US, the Doc might be prepared to send you for it but I know that there are limits on what insurances will pay for. So, as I say, you may have to pay privately for it -- BUT IT IS WELL WORTH IT!! In your situation, you quite likely will only need to get one VitD test, and privately they tend to be around $50. There are pathology companies thro which you can just request the test, pay them their fee, and get the result in about 24 hrs.

3) You may well find that your VitD level is below the acceptable threshold (50nmol/L, ie 20ng/mL, units depending on your country). BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T JUST START CHUCKING VITD IN WITHOUT REDUCING YOUR CALCIUM INTAKE!! That will just increase Ca absorption and decrease Ca secretion, ie increase net Ca retention considerably. I predict it would SIGNIFICANTLY WORSEN your afib frequency!

4) If it is below that threshold, you may wish to raise it above for general health reasons. That would be easily done by taking a supplement of just 1,000iu/day, for example. But even in that case, cut out the large Ca intake!! If you don't, then as I say, I predict your afib will increase. Whereas if you do, at your age, and with relatively infrequent attacks, you may find that alone eliminates or greatly reduces the attacks! That is why I say that, in your circumstances, you may get away with only one VitD test for quite some time.

5) If watching your Ca-intake carefully (while being not very far above the lower VitD threshold) does not get rid of the afib, or if you wish to make a more thorough investigation of this whole business, then you would need to undertake more substantial VitD dosing as described in posts above and also more seriously monitor your Ca intake. In the long run this will prove necessary anyway if you find there is a good Ca/VitD connection to your Afib. It also is advisable in the long run anyway, because it is pretty clear that being just above the lower VitD threshold is not the absolute optimum place to be health-wise anyway (very few standard MDs would argue with that), but I am saying that, however, once you start to increase your VitD to any more desirable levels significantly above the lower threshold, even if those levels are still far from the natural solar-saturation level of approx 160nmol/L (64 ng/ml), your afib will worsen significantly if you don't more seriously control your Ca intake. But the good news is that at your age you have time to approach this in a somewhat gradual way : eg initially just ensuring your VitD is over the minimum threshold; reducing your Ca intake to where afib hopefully goes away; and perhaps then saying to yourself: "Well, I don't think that this minimal VitD level and lowish Ca intake is optimum long-term; I'd like to optimise this whole VitD/Ca thing a bit more."

The crucial step in all this is really just establishing that there is a Ca/VitD link to afib in your case (or for anyone else too). If you are able to do that to your own satisfaction, then I am virtually certain that with enough attention to detail (ie at the right serum-VitD and Ca-intake levels) you can completely control it.

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SteveCarr
Ghost,

I say that is highly suspicious : well, as you may know from reading by now, I am actually certain there is a direct connection, but absolutely concrete proof (a scientific-grade large study) is not available as yet.

In your position and at your age I would certainly do the following :

1) Forget the VitK for now -- no convincing connection to afib so not your first priority. Plenty of time to worry about that later.

What is the downside to taking VitK? As I understand it, it helps channel calcium but am not aware of any potential negative.

Quote
SteveCarr
2) Get a VitD test. Depending on your location, you may well have to pay privately for that because of your age. For example, in Australia, you would be very lucky to find a Doc who would refer you for the free test for that at your age. They have a strict set of gov't requirements like : known osteoporosis; advanced age; wearing a burqa; etc. You could try the "no sun exposure" line, but it may be a real struggle. In the US, the Doc might be prepared to send you for it but I know that there are limits on what insurances will pay for. So, as I say, you may have to pay privately for it -- BUT IT IS WELL WORTH IT!! In your situation, you quite likely will only need to get one VitD test, and privately they tend to be around $50. There are pathology companies thro which you can just request the test, pay them their fee, and get the result in about 24 hrs.

Probably too late on this as I have already started following your regimen as described and am taking the VitD 5000iu once a day (with the K, and with fatty foods), and don't worry - I've reduced calcium and am monitoring it to keep it around 400mg a day. I've completely eliminated milk (don't need the calories anyway, as I only eat sweets with milk! So no more sweets...hah). I eat one yogurt with active cultures in the morning and that's the only dairy I go with. All other foods I track for calcium. I've even ordered a water test with our home water to determine if there is calcium in it (because I drink a lot of water).

Quote
SteveCarr

5) If watching your Ca-intake carefully (while being not very far above the lower VitD threshold) does not get rid of the afib, or if you wish to make a more thorough investigation of this whole business, then you would need to undertake more substantial VitD dosing as described in posts above and also more seriously monitor your Ca intake. In the long run this will prove necessary anyway if you find there is a good Ca/VitD connection to your Afib. It also is advisable in the long run anyway, because it is pretty clear that being just above the lower VitD threshold is not the absolute optimum place to be health-wise anyway (very few standard MDs would argue with that), but I am saying that, however, once you start to increase your VitD to any more desirable levels significantly above the lower threshold, even if those levels are still far from the natural solar-saturation level of approx 160nmol/L (64 ng/ml), your afib will worsen significantly if you don't more seriously control your Ca intake. But the good news is that at your age you have time to approach this in a somewhat gradual way : eg initially just ensuring your VitD is over the minimum threshold; reducing your Ca intake to where afib hopefully goes away; and perhaps then saying to yourself: "Well, I don't think that this minimal VitD level and lowish Ca intake is optimum long-term; I'd like to optimise this whole VitD/Ca thing a bit more."

The crucial step in all this is really just establishing that there is a Ca/VitD link to afib in your case (or for anyone else too). If you are able to do that to your own satisfaction, then I am virtually certain that with enough attention to detail (ie at the right serum-VitD and Ca-intake levels) you can completely control it.

Your research and wisdom in this have been invaluable. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. As you know, when you first jump into the afib pool (so to speak) the despair can be overwhelming. To know there are sharp folks like yourselves and others on this forum (George, for instance) makes walking this difficult path a whole lot more peaceful.

I'll let you know on this thread if anything changes.

Ghost,

You are right, there's no obvious downside to taking some VitK. My comment was more along the lines of "Don't stress over that, for now, if you've got an elephant in the room like routinely high Ca consumption and even higher Ca doses on the days you had afib attacks, and all at a low serum VitD level."

Will comment more on the middle part of your last post, but sorry no time right now.

Ghost,

Re the middle bit of your post :

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Probably too late on this as I have already started following your regimen as described and am taking the VitD 5000iu once a day (with the K, and with fatty foods), and don't worry - I've reduced calcium and am monitoring it to keep it around 400mg a day. I've completely eliminated milk (don't need the calories anyway, as I only eat sweets with milk! So no more sweets...hah). I eat one yogurt with active cultures in the morning and that's the only dairy I go with. All other foods I track for calcium. I've even ordered a water test with our home water to determine if there is calcium in it (because I drink a lot of water).

Good to hear that you are taking a logical, careful, and documented approach from the get-go. This is absolutely key to knowing "where you have been", 'where you are at", etc, and making sense of your situation over time.

I would still recommend getting a VitD test by hook or by crook. This baseline figure (which won't yet have changed too much with only 5,000iu/day dosing) is likely to be very useful. You may discover you were actually under the official minimum (50nmol/L, 20ng/ml) -- well, that's one thing to know! But you will also be able to use it as a guide to how quickly your serum VitD levels increase from any given amount of oral dosing, if you get a second test later. This may well turn out to be very useful info later.

Be fully aware that simple 5,000iu/day dosing will take literally months (probably about three months) to reach whatever plateau level of serum VitD it is going to reach in you. This may be acceptable to you as, at your age, you may be prepared to see if the Ca-intake reduction to 400mg/day, and only slightly increased serum VitD levels, are themselves sufficient to decrease or eliminate afib attacks. But make sure you recognise that you won't be fully giving this protocol a proper test until approx three months from now, or actually until after that if you are then waiting to see if another afib attack ensues once you have finally reached optimum VitD levels.

If you suffer detectable ectopic beats, you can use these as a good guide to how things are working. You will no doubt observe that you suffer nil in the days after an afib attack, but that they then gradually reappear. Whenever that occurs, then it is probably a good guide that the protocol is not working, or rather not fully working, at the dosing at which you are implementing it. So you could then "hurry along" to test it at a higher serum VitD level (by employing a temporary "loading dose" of higher daily VitD, as outlined in posts above), rather than just waiting for the (fairly inevitable) afib attack. This may also become attractive if sticking to the lower Ca diet becomes a chore if there is no apparent "reward" falling into place.

Eventually you will certainly need a VitD test, because 5,000iu/day can plateau in some people somewhat above the desirable 160nmol/L, 64ng/ml serum level, depending mainly on their bodyweight, the season, and the latitude they reside at. Overshooting like that is counterproductive re afib and ectopics in my experience, or requires more stringent (ie lower) Ca intakes to avoid problems.

Initial results are in from my attempted application of Steve's Calcium and Vitamin D control protocol.

On evening 38 after starting the protocol (and day 38 after my last afib) I woke to the beginning beats of aflutter at 150bpm which lasted about 10 minutes, followed by about a minute of NSR, and then the next 8 hours in either Afib or Aflutter. Way more aflutter than typical - I just converted an hour ago and the last 90 waking minutes were in aflutter.
Also, my afib bpm were somewhat elevated beyond my normal as well (120-140 instead of the typical 90-110). The aflutter is always about 150bpm for me which i assume is 2:1 conversion.

My calcium intake has been between 300-500mg per day, and my Vitamin D started at 32, reached 60 in a couple of weeks and remains there. I did not change anything else in my diet, lifestyle (which is a healthy one) or supplements (I have continued throughout this time with my New Chapter multivitamin which has 100% RDA of K among other things all in fermented forms, 640mg of fishoil and 100mg of Mag which is about all I can tolerate well).

38 days has been pretty typical for me in recent years (my episodes used to be more frequent and more routinely cyclical, e.g. every 21 days almost like clockwork, but are now usually in the 28-42 day range). So the duration of NSR doesn't lead me to think this protocol helped or hurt. The intensity of the afib and the persistance of the aflutter were noticably worse than normal (though higher rate afib and extended aflutter have occurred infrequently in the past, so I am not assuming causation here). The overall length of time was 8 hours, which is my average (the average length of episodes has migrated upward over the past 8 1/2 years, while the frequency has decreased leaving the overall burden somewhat consistent). I will note briefly that I had 3 ectopic episodes of 36 hours, 2 hours, and 6 hours in the first couple of weeks of applying this protocol (unusual, as my ectopics have generally been much more infrequent in the past few years).


I'm not drawing any conclusions about this yet. I'll get my D and calcium level checked again this week. I've had no difficulty reducing my calcium, so I plan to continue for a least another cycle or two to see what is happening and will post about it.

On a different but related note, I have never taken Flec or any other anti -arrhythmia meds out of fear of the slight chance of making things worse. I wish I had more data about it - I've skimmed a few studies and can't tell 1) if the proarrhythmia effects of 1:1 flutter conversion are dose dependent, or 2) how frequently they occur in otherwise healthy hearts (I know it is less than in compromised hearts), 3) whether 1:1 conversions are more likely with people like me who sometimes go into 2:1 aflutter rhythms, 4) how often people actually die from the 1:1 conversions. I know the risk is small, as are complications from ablation from a competent EP, but they matter to me. I saw my cardiologist a few weeks ago and he prescribed it and suggested I try PIP approach with 150mg - said no need to go to the ER to try it the first time. I'm thinking about trying 75mg next episode, followed by 75mg 2 hours later if no conversion. I will probably post this question separately on the forum if I don't get much feedback about it here.
Thanks for reading this and for any responses. Ralph

Ralph,

Well, that is not good news re your particular experiment with my method (what works in our family).

One question, one suggestion,and two comments :

When you say that your VitD started at 32 and reached 60, I'm assuming that it is obvious that both readings were in ng/ml and not nmol/L?

I have written elsewhere that adding Mg doesn't do my afib or ectopics any good, indeed that it worsened them. Some other people report this also. (I know there are also those that do apparently gain AF benefit from it). There was one brief period where I thought I did gain benefit from it, but this definitely proved incorrect in due course. Well, because of the ongoing interest in Mg, and me being in a very secure place re afib, I recently decided to trial it again. I have just finished a couple of weeks where I added 150mg/day of Mg to my diet; then saw ectopics reappear after a few days; withdrew the Mg and saw them disappear; reintroduced the Mg and saw ectopics reappear; and withdrew the Mg and saw them disappear again! So there is zero question in my case! I know that 150mg/day of Mg doesn't sound much to have such a clear-cut effect, and in the past (mainly when my Ca intake was higher) I did dose with larger amounts and had negative effects then too. But now, as you know, my Ca intake is routinely around 400mg/day. Well. the combination of foods I typically consume to achieve that Ca intake only naturally delivers around 250mg/day of Mg (and as you know, everything is normally working fine). So adding even 150mg/day of Mg is actually a big percentage increase (60% increase). Also, VitD increases net absorption of Mg as well as Ca (but maybe not as much). So, all in all, that's why even 150mg/day (or 100mg/day) might have a big effect, particularly at these solar-saturation VitD levels. The important thing for me was that I had clarified (again, and surprisingly sharply-so, this time, even to me) that Mg is definitely an adverse factor for me. But about the only constructive suggestion I have for you is that a full test of the Ca/VitD approach would therefore seem to require conducting it without any Mg supplement or very-high Mg foods (there are not many of those). Of course, if you have previously detected a definite benefit from adding Mg, then that might understandably be unattractive to you.

Two comments :
- Yes, checking the VitD level is definitely a good idea.
- It has often been suspected that there may be different underlying factors at work in different individuals (eg GeorgeN's sensitivity to Mg), and eventual confirmation of no response at all, to something which works 100% in others, would seem to confirm that.

Certainly will await with great interest your reports about what happens from another cycle or two.

Re your last para: sorry, have no knowledge re those Flecainide issues.

Thanks Steve for your input. I've never known Magnesium to be helpful personally, but kept taking some out of thinking it was at worst harmless (other than bowel intolerance). I will pull my morning 100mg out of the equation for this next cycle for what that may or may not be worth, but will keep everything else the same. Ralph

Interesting take about Mg, the darling mineral of afibbers. Most mentioned and millions made by the likes of notaDr Dean and other scammers.

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SteveCarr


If you suffer detectable ectopic beats, you can use these as a good guide to how things are working. You will no doubt observe that you suffer nil in the days after an afib attack, but that they then gradually reappear. Whenever that occurs, then it is probably a good guide that the protocol is not working, or rather not fully working, at the dosing at which you are implementing it. So you could then "hurry along" to test it at a higher serum VitD level (by employing a temporary "loading dose" of higher daily VitD, as outlined in posts above), rather than just waiting for the (fairly inevitable) afib attack. This may also become attractive if sticking to the lower Ca diet becomes a chore if there is no apparent "reward" falling into place.

I do notice this. Why does the heart seem to calm so significantly after an afib event? Like you, I can feel every missed beat the moment it occurs - which is maddening as it triggers an anxiety level instantly.

Sticking to the lower calcium diet isn't a chore, once I put my mind to something like that I become very militant about it.

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SteveCarr


Eventually you will certainly need a VitD test, because 5,000iu/day can plateau in some people somewhat above the desirable 160nmol/L, 64ng/ml serum level, depending mainly on their bodyweight, the season, and the latitude they reside at. Overshooting like that is counterproductive re afib and ectopics in my experience, or requires more stringent (ie lower) Ca intakes to avoid problems.

I'm going to give it a month and then do a vitD test. As it turns out, I had been getting 1000iu all along in a multivitamin (that I have since stopped), so I was doing all that calcium (and VitD from milk) plus the 1000iu. Ugh, what a mess.

thanks for the wisdom.

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Ralph


My calcium intake has been between 300-500mg per day, and my Vitamin D started at 32, reached 60 in a couple of weeks and remains there. I did not change anything else in my diet, lifestyle (which is a healthy one) or supplements (I have continued throughout this time with my New Chapter multivitamin which has 100% RDA of K among other things all in fermented forms, 640mg of fishoil and 100mg of Mag which is about all I can tolerate well).
Ralph

Your Vitamin D went from 32 to 60 in a couple of weeks? Isn't that awfully fast?

Mine was 11 (!) at this time last year and when tested again (about 6 month later), it was 45. I need to test again since it has been about a full year since I started taking 5,000 a day.

Kate, see Steve's protocol which suggest high dosing for a 10 days or so. I modified it somewhat - took a bit less for a little longer. I started out at 32ng/ml

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Ralph
Kate, see Steve's protocol which suggest high dosing for a 10 days or so. I modified it somewhat - took a bit less for a little longer. I started out at 32ng/ml

OK...I didn't do the "loading" dose. Just started with 5,000/day.

I took Vit. D 3 for about 5 days, but I am getting these dang Aura Migraines, one on Wed. and one this A.M., I had quit taking Vit.D. before because I thought I was getting these Auras from it. but I thought I would try it again but I guess I can't. Is there anything else that I can get Vit D from other than Fish oil, I read flaxseed Oil has Vit. D.

I was cardioverted a little over a week ago, the first couple of days, I was in NSR, than my heart felt jumpy and I went back into AF. Over the past years I was eating cheese as a snack most every day (I know George N said he had problems with AF because of his cheese eating) but I thought I wasn't eating that much. However, I stopped eating it over 3 weeks ago, and I started taking Fish oil (vit.D) about 5 days ago and I swear I am in NSR the last couple of days. So, I would like to continue this protocol but if I can't take fish oil is there anything else that would work?

Liz

You can get Vit. D from Lanolin, would that be ok to use to increase my Vit. D level? The supplement comes in capsules so I bought it and will try it hoping that it won't cause me any problems.

Liz

Liz,

Sorry to hear about your migraines. I'm not any kind of expert, but--if it's a digestive issue--you might consider one of these products:

BIOLabs PRO All Natural 15000 IU Vitamin D Cream

Vitamin D Lotion

The first claims to give a pretty powerful dose of D3 per application, so I guess you'd have to use it sparingly. I've used the BioLabs Methyl B12 cream with very good results.

I've tried the second product above, the vit D lotion, and it gives me no ill effects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 01:56AM by ln108.

Hi In108

I just ordered the second one you listed, sounds real good. I didn't know Vit D came like this, great find, thanks.

Liz

Steve, just an update - not sure if the vitD regimen and restricting calcium has anything to do with it or not, but I've had a calm, ectopic free heart for 3 weeks now since last Afib event. I'll take it.

Got tested for VitD the other day, will post results as soon as I get them.

Ghost,

Thanks for the update. Very early days of course, especially if you are only dosing VitD at a consistent 5,000iu/day since around Jan 16 (if I have understood you correctly), because that will not have increased your serum VitD very much so far, so you still would have probably three months or so to go to thoroughly test whether my protocol works for you. But since you don't know what serum VitD level you started at, and therefore have no idea yet what your current serum VitD level is, it is possible that your now-raised serum VitD, and especially your greatly reduced Ca intake, are already having an effect. Let us hope so. (I'm sure you recognised every bit of that already, but one never knows when it may be beneficial for some other reader to see such things laid out as clearly as possible, so I'll generally try to do that). Certainly, if your last afib attack was Jan12 (from what you said in your Jan16 post above), and your prior attack was around Dec16 (so around 30 days apart), and if you have now gone 21 days without an ectopic beat (in someone who has reported that they distinctly feel every ectopic and who normally experiences a steady build up of ectopics in the period before their next attack), that may be an initial indication this protocol is promising.

Look forward to your VitD result with interest, and to the reports of anyone else who gives my method a try. I will try to always reply to such reports and to offer any clarifications I can, so this Topic thread may end up with a collection of insights and details about this protocol/method.

Steve, just got vitD results. 31 ng/ml

I assume this is low?

Ghost,

Well, it is just over the bottom of the currently quoted US reference range of 25 to 80 ng/mL, which suggests that your serum VitD (blood level) was actually below the reference range (ie you were officially deficient) before you began using the 5,000iu/day VitD supplement. But then again, apparently around 40% of US adults are.

31 ng/mL (78 nmol/L) is still very low in terms of what has worked best for my family members and me to eliminate afib and ectopics, and also compared to the level at which blood tests for vitamin D naturally plateau when a person has abundant sun exposure (as 99.9% of all of our millions of ancestors did).

If I was in your shoes, i might now think that a couple of possibilities were as follows.

Being relatively young; able to detect all my ectopics; currently unusually free of ectopics already after not much more than Ca-intake reduction alone (ie after very little serum VitD increase); and normally experiencing a significant ectopic build-up prior to an afib attack, I might think that a reasonable course would just be to continue with both my current Ca intake and my current 5,000iu VitD supp -- while monitoring continuously for ectopics. At that VitD supp rate, one's serum VitD will continue to slowly increase, plateauing after maybe approx another two and a half months somewhere between probably ~48ng/ml (120nmol/L) and 64ng/ml (160nmol/L) depending mainly upon bodyweight.

If ectopics began to reappear during this time, I would recognise these as a warning and immediately drop my Ca intake even lower and observe carefully whether the ectopics subsided again over the following few days. Even if I had no intention of remaining on that even-lower Ca intake long term, I would do this to confirm that my ectopics (therefore almost certainly my afib) was indeed strongly Ca-sensitive. This would be invaluable info into the future and would also tremendously energise and enthuse my whole attention to this Ca/VitD aspect of my diet/lifestyle (as it did for me) if I wanted to stay out of afib without ablation or medications! If dropping my Ca-intake to this even-lower level did not reduce the renewed ectopics within half a dozen days, then I would immediately turn my attention to the following option (which could also otherwise be pursued directly as the alternative current next step).

The alternative would be to pursue a "loading dose" of 20,000iu/day. If I implemented that immediately, I would do it for 8 days -- the day after which I would immediately obtain another VitD test and switch back to 5,000iu/day. That should be enough to get me from 31ng/ml (78nmol/mL) to somewhere near 64ng/ml (160nmol/L). Of course, if I implemented a loading dose following the steps in the immediately preceding para, ie after another few weeks of 5,000iu/day VitD dosing in the meantime, I would then need fewer days of loading dose, on a sliding scale, and getting another test after the few days of loading dose would remain vitally important. For more info on the loading dose approach, see the 18th post in this Topic thread.

At your age and with the other factors listed 3 paras above, I might be attracted to the first option (ie in that para). You seem to have time on your side and to be in a reasonable place currently. And the very slow increase in serum VitD will reveal any point at which trouble reemerges if it does so due a higher serum VitD level causing too much Ca retention at your current Ca intake (assuming you can maintain the latter as accurately as you say you are achieving with ease currently). So that first option is potentially somewhat more informative overall, as to a person's individual detailed variables. But it requires significant dietary discipline and patience for a multi-month testing period, which is why the loading-dose approach may be better (a shorter test period) for some other individuals.

If I eventually found that it was only at what seemed like quite a low Ca intake that my ectopics and afib completely disappeared, then at that stage I would also have a blood test for parathyroid hormone (PTH) or even a "Fasting Metabolic Bone Study" (which includes VitD, PTH, serum Ca, but also about 10 other more obscure Ca-metabolism-related blood markers) to check that all was in order, but it is exceedingly likely that one would find that it is, particularly because the elevated (actually historically normal) serum VitD levels would be ensuring adequate Ca retention even at very low Ca intakes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 05:11PM by SteveCarr.

Good stuff. I think, right now, I'm going to continue with the 5000iu a day and retest in a month. My heart has been very quiet these last three weeks. My Ca is being restricted to no more than 250mg a day at this point and my diet is low carb. Exercise is running, biking and martial arts. Lets hope it continues.

Appreciate the wisdom.

Going on four weeks of quiet beats, so I decided to do a test yesterday. I re-introduced calcium back into my diet in the form of dairy (cheese, and a good amount of it) at lunch time. By the evening I started having a few ectopics - nothing crazy, but they were definitely back. Coincidence? Don't know.

Today back to restricting Ca again and all is quiet.

In at least some people it's absolutely clear that events like this are not a coincidence; but, in the end, only if people do a careful, thorough test, as you are, will they ever find out if they can eliminate their afib and ectopics in this natural way.

Argh. Had an interesting incident this morning where I crouched down (to pet a dog) and while crouched I experienced what felt like me going into afib (erratic beats, ectopics, etc). Lasted about 10-15 seconds as I stood up and then went right back to normal. Previous episode of afib also began when I was crouching down but did not convert back for 6 hours. This converted back really quickly - have never experienced that before.

So frustrating.

I had a Cardioversion about 3 weeks ago, I was AF free for 3 days and went back in AF. I have stopped all calcium foods like cheese, which is about the only cal. food that I ate, and have tried to get my Vit. D up, it checked around 30 ng/ml, I started this about 3 weeks ago and it hasn't done anything for me, still in AF. Perhaps my Vit. D is still low, I see my Holistic doctor in March and he will run it then. So, I will keep trying the protocol, on my last blood work my Parathyroid Hormone is a little high (this was taken in Sept. of 2019) it is 76, the lab values (14-64) so I will get that re-tested this coming March. I will keep trying as being in AF is not what I want and I don't like what I would have to do to terminate this AF.

Liz

Liz,

What total of VitD supplements have you taken since your blood level of VitD tested at 30ng/ml (75nmol/L)? That is, how many iu ("International Units") in total since then, or how many days at what dose per day (in International Units)?

30 ng/ml is certainly just about at the the very bottom of the US reference range (25 to 80 ng/ml). At my weight of ~70Kg, I would require about 160,000iu, in total, over a few days, to get me from 30ng/ml to near 64ng/ml (160nmol/L), which is the approx level that serum (blood) VitD naturally plateaus at with heavy sun exposure. Then I would need around 5,000iu/day just to stay around that level (some nuances to that, but see elsewhere for those details). But just make sure that Ca-intake is lowered substantially if you raise your serum VitD to the levels we are talking about, otherwise you may make yourself more prone to afib in my experience (altho that would not be detectable by you currently).

[160,000iu may sound like a big number, but I posted ten references earlier of published studies of Docs administering doses of 500,000 in single doses, including to children and elderly. It is not rare or alarming. I've also explained, before, that the name gives it away : "International Units" means that some committee sat down somewhere, probably back in about the 1930's when they were first aquiring very basic info re VitD, and said "How big shall we make the units for this stuff?", then arbitrarily picked a number (size). They could just as easily have made each unit 1,000 times bigger, and then we would be talking about 160iu and 500iu for the first two numbers in this paragraph!]

Increasing serum (blood) VitD levels has the effect of suppressing (lowering) serum parathyroid hormone readings. In any case, a PTH reading just a bit over the top of the reference range, like yours, never alarmed any MD's in my case.

I recall you posting comments some time ago about seasonal variations in your afib, and your solid sun exposure in summer in your garden, etc, so I have long thought that my protocol might be highly relevant in your case. But I have refrained from urging it on to any particular individuals. Each must make their own choices. I don't know how likely my protocol is to get someone out of sustained (persistent) afib as opposed to avoiding attacks in the first place, but since we are only ever envisaging keeping the serum VitD level well within the normal US reference range there is no problem trying from that point of view.