Re: Warfarin September 28, 2018 05:03PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Erin
Outside of more frequent bloodwork and diet restrictions, what are the other downfalls of warfarin? As opposed tio the new drugs, isn't it safer to be able to control the blood levels with regular testing? How do you know what your blood is doing with Eliquis or xarelto? It seems I would have more control over bleeding problems with warfarin. My risk of falling and injury is high because of outdoor work that I do. It just seems the control over bleeding is not there with Eliquis. Pharmacist said he wasn't sure if our small rural hospitals had the antidotes or not. Thanks.
Re: Warfarin September 28, 2018 05:32PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
Quote
Erin
Outside of more frequent bloodwork and diet restrictions, what are the other downfalls of warfarin?
Quote
As opposed tio the new drugs, isn't it safer to be able to control the blood levels with regular testing? How do you know what your blood is doing with Eliquis or xarelto?
Quote
It seems I would have more control over bleeding problems with warfarin. My risk of falling and injury is high because of outdoor work that I do. It just seems the control over bleeding is not there with Eliquis. Pharmacist said he wasn't sure if our small rural hospitals had the antidotes or not.
Re: Warfarin September 28, 2018 08:09PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 09:59AM |
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Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 12:52PM |
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Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 01:40PM |
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Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 02:14PM |
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Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 10:03PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
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jpeters
Like most people, I never had any problems with warfarin. Many have problems with Eliquis. I eat my regular diet, with plenty of leafy greens, and take MK-7 supplement. INR stablizes. I get INR test once a month. The MK-7 derived from Natto raises the INR, so I need only a minimal dose (2.5 mg). I think the glories of Eliquis are WAY over dramatized on this board.
Jackie, you have to initially find out the proper dose so start out with weekly tests. I got one of the alert call initially after being prescribed a dose that was too high. I immediately ate some kale and took a vitamin K tablet, which brought it right down. Sorry the call freaked you out.
GeorgeN, You need to keep consuming foods with Vitamin K. “One good way to think about vitamin K and its importance while taking warfarin is that you need to maintain a balance between the amount of vitamin K in your body and the amount of warfarin prescribed by your health care provider.” You should aim to keep the amount of vitamin K in your diet consistent."
It's a myth that you shouldn't eat any Vitamin K, or that warfarin "kills" all the vitamin K.
[bloodclotrecovery.net]
Re: Warfarin September 29, 2018 10:24PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
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smackman
For instance, A colonoscopy requires 5 days off any anticoagulant which is wrong IMO but I do not win.
Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 02:31AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 38 |
Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 04:42AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 05:03AM |
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Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 02:29PM |
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Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 02:51PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Jackie
jpeters - on the warfarin incident. I wasn't freaked out. Just irritated at the inconvenience because the cardiologist prescribing it initially, did not check my platelet count or warn me that dosing might be problematic. Actually, it turned out to be a good experience, because my research led me to the many benefits of nattokinase and by switching to that, I was protected and without the side effects of the meds.
Jackie
Re: Warfarin September 30, 2018 03:11PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 18,886 |
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 02:43PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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smackman
What is the documentation about many have problems with Eliquis? I take Eliquis “for life” so fill me in with The Eliquis problems. You would think they would black box it if it has a big negative input on individuals.
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 03:49PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 18,886 |
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 05:45PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Carey
Although warfarin can be reversed, that reversal isn't immediate. It takes about 24 hours for vitamin K to reverse the effects. Considering that the half-life of Eliquis is about 12 hours, simply stopping Eliquis will reduce anticoagulant effects just about as fast as vitamin K reduces warfarin's effects.
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 06:25PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,750 |
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 06:26PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
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jpeters
There are numerous warnings against stopping Eliquis cold turkey.
" ELIQUIS can cause bleeding, which can be serious, and rarely may lead to death."
"Stay on Eliquis until your healthcare provider tells you to get off. Suddenly stopping Eliquis can cause serious issues."
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 06:40PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 07:19PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Carey
I read your UrL on Eliquis, that must be one of the most horrible drugs on the market and you have to pay big bucks for it.
The list of side effects and drug/food interactions for warfarin dwarfs the list for Eliquis.
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 07:23PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 08:08PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 01, 2018 08:11PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 12:52AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
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jpeters
Warfarin is derived from sweet clover. Although relatively safe, it causes problems for physicians who have to monitor INR for it to be safe. That's not something many are equipped or want to do, which is why they love Eliquis. Even if they have a coumadin clinic, there's no extra charge for the service.
"These findings do not indicate that physicians have inadequate knowledge or expertise (in the trials many were experienced haematologists), but rather reflect the fact that there was often increased frequency of monitoring, contact time, and advice between clinic visits in clinics run by other health-care professionals, a luxury not afforded to physicians. There can be no doubt that managing patients taking warfarin requires a multi-disciplinary and multi-functional approach. Patient education should be an important component, although surprisingly little attention has been paid to this"
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 01:14AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,750 |
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smackman
I have stopped Pradaxa cold turkey and Eliquis cold Turkey. No issues at all. I actually swapped from Xarelto to Eliquis without issue.
Smackman you were on this board when a person wrote about having a stroke when he switched from Xarelto to Eliquis, so it can happen, maybe you are just lucky. I can't remember who this person was but he hasn't posted since that time, he had said that his memory was affected by the stroke.
I found the message I was speaking of:
Mike E [ PM ]
Re: Eliquis side effects
April 20, 2018 11:41AM Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 98
In November of 2016 I requested my prescription be changed from Xeralto to Eliquis. I did not feel well on the Eliquis. I informed the NP of it and sent heart rhythm traces and was told to wait and see. By the end of Dec I had a stroke. The Eliquis was not working at all. The stroke was far worse than the worst of my AFIB (after three ablations). I would be very careful of any issues with Eliquis.
Liz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2018 01:29AM by Elizabeth.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 02:02AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 03:57AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Carey
That's a 12-year old article written before finger stick testing existed. Doctors aren't switching to NOACs because it's more convenient for them. They're switching because the NOACs are equally or more effective, have far fewer side effects, far fewer interactions with other drugs, no interactions with food, don't require monitoring and dosage adjustments, and have a lower bleed risk.
Once again, warfarin's only advantage is cost.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 04:02AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 04:19AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
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jpeters
Finger stick testing? You're joking, right? Once again, you're entitled to your own opinion, but for many people (like myself) who have no problems with warfarin, eliquis certainly has no advantages.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 04:47AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Carey
What I said is the facts are that warfarin is an inferior drug when compared to the NOACs for most people.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 01:20PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
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jpeters
Overall, neither blood thinner bothers me except easy to bleed. Taking only 2.5 mg of Eliquis 2X a day has helped out.
.
The lower dose, however, has substantial increased stroke risk.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 02:21PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
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smackman
Overall, neither blood thinner bothers me except easy to bleed. Taking only 2.5 mg of Eliquis 2X a day has helped out.
.
The lower dose, however, has substantial increased stroke risk.
Not true for my situation. Dr. Natale is my EP and his professional opinion was 2.5 mg 2X a day of Eliquis. I am not in AFIB. It has to do with my P wave at the mitral valve.
Make sure you understand the diagnosis before blurting nonsense.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 02:36PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
Quote
jpeters
I think you're confusing facts with opinion and theory. Very little is understood about the intricacies of how medications interact within the human body. Making absolute statements like that is absurd and meaningless.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 04:50PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Carey
I think you're confusing facts with opinion and theory. Very little is understood about the intricacies of how medications interact within the human body. Making absolute statements like that is absurd and meaningless.
It's not theory or opinion. I understand that you personally prefer warfarin and that's fine.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 05:28PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
Quote
jpeters
Overall, neither blood thinner bothers me except easy to bleed. Taking only 2.5 mg of Eliquis 2X a day has helped out.
.
The lower dose, however, has substantial increased stroke risk.
Not true for my situation. Dr. Natale is my EP and his professional opinion was 2.5 mg 2X a day of Eliquis. I am not in AFIB. It has to do with my P wave at the mitral valve.
Make sure you understand the diagnosis before blurting nonsense.
I would suggest you curb your arrogance, Smackman. I'm not an authority on the issue. Obviously, I don't know your "diagnosis".
"ARISTOTLE: Avoid Lower-Dose Apixaban in AF Patients With One Dose-Reduction Criterion"
"Patients should be treated with the effective doses as studied, because using the reduced 2.5-mg twice-daily dose of apixaban in this population could result in preventable strokes," Dr John H Alexander (Duke Clinical Research Institute, Duke Health, Durham, NC) and colleagues write in the analysis, published online July 27, 2016 in JAMA Cardiology.
[www.medscape.com]
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 05:39PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 05:48PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
Quote
jpeters
That's a 12-year old article written before finger stick testing existed. Doctors aren't switching to NOACs because it's more convenient for them. They're switching because the NOACs are equally or more effective, have far fewer side effects, far fewer interactions with other drugs, no interactions with food, don't require monitoring and dosage adjustments, and have a lower bleed risk.
Once again, warfarin's only advantage is cost.
Finger stick testing? You're joking, right? Once again, you're entitled to your own opinion, but for many people (like myself) who have no problems with warfarin, eliquis certainly has no advantages.
BTW/ I have at least a year's supply of Eliquis...samples dumped on the clinic to get everyone using it. I switched to warfarin because Eliquis wasn't able to remove a clot.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 08:09PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 38 |
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 09:07PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,594 |
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Erin
When I asked the original question, I was thinking of my brother whose cardiologist told him he could not use xarelto. This was four years ago. He was battling a rare aggressive form of leukemia and I would imagine that is why they chose warfarin. He had thrown a clot before warfarin because a surgeon did not think blood thinner was warranted after cervical surgery. I realize everyone is going to react differently.
Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 10:07PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 11:41PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 02, 2018 11:50PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 03, 2018 12:06AM |
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Re: Warfarin October 03, 2018 12:31AM |
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Re: Warfarin October 06, 2018 12:16PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 06, 2018 11:54PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 09, 2018 08:14PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 09, 2018 10:54PM |
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bolimasa
I chose warfarin over the other anti-coagulants because it is fairly tried and true, and can be reversed.
Re: Warfarin October 10, 2018 04:33AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 129 |
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Carey
I chose warfarin over the other anti-coagulants because it is fairly tried and true, and can be reversed.
There are now reversal agents for Pradaxa, Eliquis and Xarelto. The only NOACs that don't have a reversal agent are Savaysa and Bevyxxa, but they will soon.
Two things that people need to keep in mind with reversing anticoagulants are that 1) it has a much longer half life than the NOACs and 2) reversing warfarin takes upwards of 24 hours. That means that the NOACs can now be reversed faster than warfarin so that advantage has been erased.
Re: Warfarin October 10, 2018 05:11AM |
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Re: Warfarin October 10, 2018 01:06PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 12, 2018 07:58PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 13, 2018 12:58AM |
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Re: Warfarin October 13, 2018 07:39PM |
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Re: Warfarin October 18, 2018 05:02AM |
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Re: Warfarin January 06, 2019 02:56PM |
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Re: Warfarin February 13, 2019 05:40PM |
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